# How to drill perpendicular to end of stick ?



## HikerLT

New to this forum, and to learning how to make walking/hiking sticks.

A question I have is :

How do you drill straight, perpendicular "end-on" holes into the end of a curvy stick ( not a perfect dowel).

I'm trying to drill into the ends of a rather tall hiking staff , which is taller than the florr mounted Drill press I have.

I've been looking at plans on how to build a horozontal drill/boring jig, and playing around with the idea of getting 2 x-y cross-slide vise to hold the top and bottom ends of the stick , to be able to adjust the alignment to a drill. Then looked at mounting my unimat with drill configuration mounted on the lathe bed, to be able to move the drill head. Other thoughts are to find one of those jigs that allows you to strap in an ordinary hand drill to "create" a cheap drill press....but still the problem of either moving the drill to drill into the stick, or vice-versa, moving the entire long jig holding the stick.

How do you all do the end-on perpendicular drilling ?


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## cobalt

Basically use hand eye cordination . useing a hand held drill more you do it better you get. It would be more trouble of making /purchasing setting it up the jig

I take it your trying to mount a topper on the shank

I use epoxy putty if not quite right, but have found i dont need to use it very oftern.

good luck


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## Rad

I've always struggled with that on long material -- I'm interested in seeing a diagram on your lathe set up.

BTW -- welcome to the site!


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## cobalt

If your using a lathe you can get centre hole boring tool, i havnt a lathe so never turn my shanks just use natural material finish .But they are handy for making a two pie

ce .But i just use a small nail for alignment just tap it into the shank lay them on the bech tap them together which leaves a imprint for drilling


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## CAS14

My problem in a nutshell: I seldom use a dowel or shovel handle, and nearly always use what I cut in the woods. Thus, my sticks are of varying diameter, and they are nearly straight only when I use something like red cedar. So, the definition of "parallel to the axis of the stick" depends on what part of the stick you mean. Often the lowermost few inches isn't perfectly aligned with the rest.

I have a little metal drillbit guide for common bit sizes that facilitates perpendicular holes on flat surfaces. This is difficult to align on the end of a stick. Sometimes I select a piece of copper tubing or a fitting of a size that will fit loosely over the end of a stick, and then I have a perpendicular, circular surface, perpendicular to the tubing or fitting, and to the section of the stick that it encompasses. My drill guide can then be laid on the end of the tubing or fitting. Sometimes, I just eyeball it and hope for the best.


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## cobalt

All my toppers are fitted with 4" threaded steel bar 8mm in dia. Thers 2" in the shank 2" in the topper fixed with epoxy glue ;usually i get a fairly true hole but i sometimes wack the bar with a hammer place the topper on and just turn the topper it usually settels pretty snug


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## Fordj

I've been in a quandry over this post.

There are machines and techniques that can do what you ask. However, not cheap, handmade especially. (want to know? I'll drive you crazy with instructions)

For a handmade connection point, just hand drill to the best of your abilities, then square the face of your drilled surface with a rasp or file. In Other words, drill your hole, then make the mating surface 90 degrees to your hole. 5 degree "out of square" on a curved stick is imperceptable.

OK, real world scenario:

Your workbench is about 42" tall.

Your stick you want to drill is a long hiking staff of 62"

Clamp your stick using spacer shims to your workbench until you get the vertical centerline you want. (I keep a lot of shim stock at work. The 5S team has learned to keep their hands OFF, they don't understand why a stack of shims are so valuable. After much verbal abuse, they tolerate me.)

Clear off your workbench so that you can stand on it. Then climb up on it.

You can drill straight down, Right? Use the smallest pilot bit you can, that will tell you whether you are out of vertical. Just do it! Then follow with final size! Now get off the workbench before you fall off.

Finally, use a rasp or file to square the face of your stick to your hole, and you're done.


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## cobalt

its just easyer to lay the stick in a vice and drill a right angle into it.I have made loads of hiking poles it works.And yes have made mistakes just redrill the hole chaffing drill up and down attach the topper fill with expoxy resin putty

Just haveiing the stick at a right angle dos`nt ensure you will drill a right angle perfectly by hand.

But what sort of toppers are you using and how do you attach them?are you using a collar ?

just nosey


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## Fordj

Cobalt,

Your vise method would be a lot easier. I've done most of my drilling that way, or in a drill press.

I'm a newbie to stick making, haven't even made one, yet. I will be going on my first stick hunt this week.

I'm not a carver, so any toppers would be found objects, adapted to be a topper. When that happens, I'll figure it out then.


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## cobalt

I use my vice or vise as you call then all the time as i mostly carve all my toppers, i think its RAD that has made a variety of objects to fit on the end of his stick suprising how people are adaptable and its not a bad idea to fit something on the shank that you like or find useful Rad has allsorts of attchments on his .just love the one with a compass thats accurate to a deph of 50 ft ,i can see him now walking along the bottom of a river checking directions , sorry rad a bit of fun.,but it just goes to show how useful they can be,he has used his for a camera mount and mesuring stick etc.

The main thing is just enjoy doing it.

good luck hunting sticks, this is somehing i cant do without the land owners perrmision, but we have by law the right to roam now even tho a few landowners object.

But cutting a stick when no ones around thers no harm done. guilty as charged


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## Fordj

I can't just go where I want to, either. I have to ask permission of the landowners. People here are pretty protective of their land. So are the farm animals that might be on them. I'd hate to be walking a tree row and have a Bull take a dislike to me being in "His" pasture! Cows and Horses are equally territorial. Owners know where they have livestock, and steer you away from those areas.

Public land is OK, and most that allows camping also allow foraging for firewood. that will be my excuse, anyway!


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## cobalt

Normally a friendly word will get you what , most people dont mind a few sticks its when it get into large qauntites they object after all keeping plants strong encourage further growth and some of them need coppicing

Your laws may be diffrent from ours but not. much. The right to roam is a very powerful tool that we have by law but if you obey the countryside code most land owners are okayBut yes you will come across the difficult ones

A lot of the paths that are used go way back and to medievel times and people will always have the right of way these oftern cross farmland /private property and even run through peoples gardens but nothing can prevent people from using them.If they do by any means the local council would be forced to act upon it to ensure that is reopened. because of the right of way Some farmers are strongly against it but the ramblers association is a powerful vioce when it come to things like the right of way most land owners would aviod a case that they know they would lose

But you must also have right of way Over here if a path is used for 7years or more and can be proven it becomes a right of way.A landowner by law must close the path once a year to prvent this from happening

normally there isnt a problem with walkers.

just have a friendly word with land owner about gathering a few to keep coutryside carfts alive normally this will hep

.


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## Fordj

I just went stick hunting through my own brushpile and yard. One Hawthorne branch is big enough, but only long enough for a cane. Another one got broken in a violent wind storm this fall, and if it doesn't survive, will make a nice staff. I also had to cut down 2 Red Maple to make room for a fence this late summer. Those will make some nice sticks.

There are several places I found that I want to hike the tree rows, I'll just have to ask permission.


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## cobalt

Its usually the best way ,most people are friendly.

I unfortunatly buy most of my shanks but there already seasoned for 2 years and straigtend ,i personnally dislike bent sticks just my taste and oftern tweek one if there is a small bend in it using a hot air gun.

I never strip the bark of a stick ,as i use hazel and chestnue and blackthorn ,i find the colour of the shanks to nice to waste and belive natures packaging is the best. Many here will not agree with me , its just chioce.

Its usually american stickmakers strip the back mayby its the type of bark on there shanks or its just simple preferance .It dos`nt really matter .Main thing is enjoy doing it and see how your type of sticks develop and takes you.

If it works for do it


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## Fordj

I like bark, so I'm leaning to not stripping it. Natural sticks is what I have in mind.

I do have old deadwood elm, that has naturally lost its bark. Those are the ones the wife keeps pointing at and saying "make a stick of that for me!" She is half Lakota, and the elm are native, so maybe the wood sings to her. There are almost straight bits of it, with just a slight curve, I 'll try to make her happy.

Of course, she hasn't seen Sakakwea Silver Buffaloberry, or Oahe Hackberry, (Neither have I), but I know where to go at least see if they will make good sticks. I have seen ( and eaten) Buffaloberry, but I wasn't paying attention to the wood, just the berries. They are tall, dense shrubs, 10 feet tall at the highest. The Hackberry is a mystery as of yet, but two arboretums have examples of them.

I forgot to mention earlier in my stick hunting post, I also have a lower branch of Juniper, about 6 feet long, nearly uniform 1 1/2" diameter. It is still amazingly flexible, even though I pruned it just last summer. I've wanted to make some Gin of the berries, but don't know how to ferment them, and don't have the equipment to distill from the fermentation. Of all the Spirits, Gin is my favorite. It doesn't kick my head the next morning.


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## cobalt

i am not familar with a lot of wood you have and use over there but there are plenty of people here who could tell you more about them.

But there are plenty of reciepes on the web using juniper berries for flavouring

The berries you metined i know nothing about them i have never heard of them but will probably look them up.

Alawys interested in different fruits

I have been trying to find the name of a fruit we had when we where in Maderia its a cross between a pineapple and a bannana,it looks like sweet corn but is green in colour never found the name of it yet we cant buy it in england its very tasty.

have fun with the sticks


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## Fordj

I'm not familiar with a lot of the wood here. That's why I will visit the arboretums available to me to find out. So many of the trees here, were and are, introduced by man. The buffaloberry is indigineous, so that piques my interest in using it.

Different fruits are fascinating. With world commerce, lots of 'new' fruits are now available in the markets, so it's fun to explore all the different flavors.

I will have fun with my sticks! Learning to craft good ones is where the fun is.


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## CAS14

I just bought a drill guide with some long bits that might solve this dilemma for some sticks, and perhaps it will improve my drilling aim for most. Perhaps I'll have it by next weekend.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/Page.aspx?p=73477&cat=1,180,42311


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## CV3

That is one of the advantages of having Shop Smith. This site hav a simple one
https://woodgears.ca/horizontal_boring/jig.html


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## cobalt

interesting ideas here ? needs careful reading


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## Gloops

I do same as Cobalt , put the shank horizontal in a vice and manually drill it, to mark the hole center I use a combination rule ( the ones with slide on attachments) and use the center finder one, mark 3 t0 5 lines ,if not round you can see the centre in between all the lines pop it, find a small spirit level and set you drill with a long bit horizontal and stick the level to the drill reading horizontal, this gives you a visual vertical positioning of of the drill, the horizontal position is by eye,


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## cobalt

You can always tape a small spirit level to the drill and use it as a guide when drilling .But with hazel you can see the centre of the shank so I just use that and hand eye co-ordination ,and its usually fairly accurate but mostly okay any variation can be overcome by using epoxy putty . but I always drill the hole 1st before I cut the shank to length so if I do make a mistake I cut it out and start again., but mostly its okay .

This works for me as now I harvest my own shanks I always cut them longer than I want when I harvest them. this allows for mistakes and gives my the choice of lengths. Mostly there over 6ft when I harvest them so there's plenty of room which allows for any cracking in the wood during seasoning but this hardly ever happens when seasoning if you leave the bark on. I never strip the bark anyway.


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## Rodney

If you feel you must have a horizontal boring machine a used ShopSmith is a cheap way to have one. I just drill the best I can by eye. If things are a little off (likely) I ream the hole out until things line up and use epoxy to glue things together. It fills any gaps and makes a good strong joint.

Rodney


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## cobalt

some samples of drilling out for connectors

and one thing i do have trouble with is drilling holes in is bone and horn collars it can be a job centre drilling into something that's round gripping the collar they always seem to slip and bone ones if they get to hot during drilling breaks in half .need a good gripping method to drill such a small round item .there only 1 inch in diameter any ideas how to hold them to ensure a clean cut without the collar slipping and jamming in the drill??????

These are the things giving me the most trouble to drill a hole for the threaded bar








at lest with these items its more straight forward


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## Gloops

Hi Cobalt , I just use an old B&D drill table vice the moving jaw has a 45deg groove vertically cut for holding round bar, it is only a finger tightening vice (no T bar) never had a problem, for the heat prob knock the speed down if poss. and ensure drill is sharp. because of drilling varying mat'ls of differing hardness I invested in good quality HSS long series 8 & 10 mm drills, found the carbon steel drills lost their cutting edge very quickly.

Make a wood insert for the jaws with a groove to give 3 point contact and give it a try.


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## cobalt

i will make a wooden jaw to fit the collars could be the answer .Its pretty dam annoying when the collar slips out from the table vice and gets stuck in the drill bit

your right about the speed of the drill and the drill bit think it is a combination of the two caused the problem.


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## Rodney

Instead of squeezing the edges, squeeze the flat portions instead. I'd make a simple clamp out of a couple flat pieces of wood and a couple bolts. Sandwich the horn or bone between the two boards then drill.

Rodney


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## cobalt

problem is that collars vary in size from approx. 18 to 25 mm .you have to file them back to fit the shank which isn't to bad as a lot of shanks are not perfectly round but this allows you to get a good fit... Most people will put some electric tape level to the joint to save marking the shank whilst filing it to fit,


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## Gloops

Hi Cobalt, I prefer to leave bark on shanks and as you say this makes the joint a time consuming job has care needs to be taken to not damage the bark at the joint interface. I use masking tape (pre stuck on the bench to reduce its tackyness so bark is not removed when pulling off) I usually start with 3 thickness, and when starting to damage the tape, remove and reapply 2 thicknesses, then 1, and this is the time consuming bit , finally tickle up with no tape.ps at each tape change I usuall drop a grit grade or two, finishing off with 400 grit.


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## Gloops

Interesting jig you got there CAS14. give us a report on how it performs drilling the dowel hole in the shank.


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## cobalt

i also would like to see how you get on with it

you get on alright with masking tape I it thought maybe to thin and tear to easy for that so I will try it


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## CAS14

We have different kinds of masking tape now, with different adhesive characteristics. The old-school tan masking tape is the most sticky. A blue painter's tape is intermediate. A green painter's tape is the least sticky, similar to the drafting tape that was available before drafting became a computer activity. I use the green tape most often, but the choice depends upon the activity. I suppose mose know this, but it hadn't been mentioned to my knowledge.


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## cobalt

We just have one to my knowledge when I use it to mask things I just stick to my chinos to reduce the tackiness so to prevent it removing any paintwork

I do use electrician tape to stop marking the shank bark .but will try glops method as its cheaper and nothing ventured nothing gained.


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## Gloops

Being an ex draughtsman, got to stick with draughting tape - pun intended 

Sticking first on clothing or bench solves the problem, also its really only the overlap that needs to stick.


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## stickwithdave

Forgive me for butting in on your jointing method using metal rod. But most stick repairs are where the metal has split the stick and come out the side. I make Country sticks such as Shepherds Crooks that catch sheep and are banged on the ground to move the Sheep. Other sticks are Beating sticks that are used to frighten game for the guns to shoot. these are banged on trees, bushes and the ground, so good Stick makers here use the dowel method.It's simply a 13mm hole drilled in the head and a 13mm dowel carved on the stick, stronger and safer than the metal and easier to do. Dave


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## cobalt

there is nothing to forgive ideas are always welcome here

the majority of people here give there views there supportive and helpful

A experianced stickmakers viewpiont like your self is very welcome and most will take you views on board .and with what the sticks you make are used for makes sense


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## CV3

I watched you videos stickwithdave, I like your process of attaching the topper and plan to use it. I can see advantages. However, I think that when there is a problem with a threaded steel rod it is because the length of the rod is too short and or the rod is too big leaving thin a side wall. I never use a rod larger than 5/16" in diameter. ( 7.9MM I think). I go a minimum 31/2" ( 89mm) in to the shank. I go to with in 3/4" (19mm) of the top of the topper. I have never had a issue with a stick doing that.


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## Gloops

My sticks are made for leisure as opposed to working sticks so I have never had a problem with breakage. On one or two occasions during my learning curve I have had difficulty with topper and shank not being in line, with the topper held safely in a vice and a bit of gentle persuasion with a lump hammer it was soon sorted - advantage of a steel dowel.

Back to the dowel method which is the old and original method of jointing I have read were it can be advisable to drill down the dowel an insert a round nail to go past the dowel-shank shoulder to add strength to this type of joint.


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## cobalt

I also make mine for liesure and have seen the same method as gloops mentioned

would you use a larger stick to go beating with, i wouldnt have thought many people would have a decorative stick for beating

I think a lot of people see there sticks as a extension of there personality there so easy to recognise and a good talking piont with ramblers and alike.


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## CAS14

I grew up a country boy, stickwithdave. Those skills come in handy. Now that I'm a city boy, my day walks sometimes take me into poor neighborhoods that can be rough due to loose, aggressive dogs or potentially even young toughs. So I do take a weightier "beating stick" on those days, and I think I've avoided a dog bite or two.

I've been under the weather for a week, but I began an antibiotic today and should be coherent soon.


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## Rodnogdog

CAS14 said:


> I grew up a country boy, stickwithdave. Those skills come in handy. Now that I'm a city boy, my day walks sometimes take me into poor neighborhoods that can be rough due to loose, aggressive dogs or potentially even young toughs. So I do take a weightier "beating stick" on those days, and I think I've avoided a dog bite or two.
> I've been under the weather for a week, but I began an antibiotic today and should be coherent soon.


I like it

Feel better soon

Gordon


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## Whiteroselad

CAS14 said:


> I grew up a country boy, stickwithdave. Those skills come in handy. Now that I'm a city boy, my day walks sometimes take me into poor neighborhoods that can be rough due to loose, aggressive dogs or potentially even young toughs. So I do take a weightier "beating stick" on those days, and I think I've avoided a dog bite or two.
> 
> I've been under the weather for a week, but I began an antibiotic today and should be coherent soon.


Yes mate, Get Well soon Cas14. You'll be up and about once the antibiotics kick in! N.


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## stickwithdave

Hi Gloops

In answer to your comment, with a working Crook we do use a 4" masonary nail down the center of the dowel. Masonary nails are hardened steel and not very thick. Grind off the head and use it as a drill bit. Drill it into the center of the stick and tap the last bit in, then make your dowel.

Dave


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## stickwithdave

Hi CAS14

Hope you are getting better. I have been unwell with a flu like virus, that's why I have time in doors to play with the computer.

Dave


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## CAS14

stickwithdave said:


> Hi CAS14
> 
> Hope you are getting better. I have been unwell with a flu like virus, that's why I have time in doors to play with the computer.
> 
> Dave


Bright eyed and bushy tailed this morning, with more than eight hours of sleep, double what I've had any night for more than a week. Thank goodness for antibiotics. A couple of volunteer projects have languished and I'm beginning to get calls about moving things forward.


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