# John tenniel



## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

drawings for the off the wall installation i have planned ,nice subject matter and a bit of a challege as hoping to mount them on a wall in the half /three quarters round so hopefully they look as tho there coming through the wall' The subject is based on sir John Tenniel drawings for alice through the looking glass. and hopefully carved in tulip wood have to see how it goes,

Some will be carved in the round as hiking poles

Spent some time researchng it and quite a few drawings done .Some drawings will need modifying when i make the templates out to see if they work on the wall So hopefully no one will bother me so i can get on with it


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

Looks like you have set your self some great projects cobalt. I envy your drawing skills. I struggle with trying to draw out project. My stick man drawings are ugly!!


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

I think that drawing helps me to carve it gives a better understanding of the shape and what i want to acheive , but the lion i think will be a bit demanding . Some of the images will be modified so when i make a cardboard cut out i will make some cut out of the arms seperate and put a moveable hinge on it to give me a better idea where i am going .

Its not everybodys way of working but i like this way .and it works for me

You dont have to be able to draw you carvings are excellent well proportioned and a little different from the run of the mill.

people have different ideas and thats good ,i otfern oick up some thing on this forum i can use .

The things i lik e are scrimshaw work it looks great and also the multi purpose stick for measuring holding the camera etc is real fun


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## MJC4 (Mar 6, 2014)

I cannot draw worth spit either. I do print out pics and size them to fit the piece I am carving so I can proportion the work. I will then rough and I mean rough sketch the piece before whittling on it.

I think what helps me is my 35+ years of reading 2 dimensional blue prints and isometric drawings, then picturing the project in 3D in my minds eye. That experience allows me to look at a picture or sketch and visualize it as a 3D object.


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## yaxley (Sep 4, 2014)

Looks like some intricate projects coming up.


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

I am grateful to some drawing books that taught me how to measuring for proportion. I have even taken drawing classes. More than twice. But not much luck. I get picture in my head of something I want to do but struggle with getting it on paper. sometimes I cut and paste together pictures I down load to build a picture. Drawing skills has always eluded me.


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## gdenby (Apr 27, 2013)

Cobalt,

Good transcriptions of Tenniel drawings. I suspect you will do good work on the Dodo bird. The Unicorn head adn the Hatter's hat seem challenging to me. Good luck. Hope you can find the time.


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## gdenby (Apr 27, 2013)

CV3 said:


> I am grateful to some drawing books that taught me how to measuring for proportion. I have even taken drawing classes. More than twice. But not much luck. I get picture in my head of something I want to do but struggle with getting it on paper. sometimes I cut and paste together pictures I down load to build a picture. Drawing skills has always eluded me.


I made a living, albeit a meagre one, painting portraits decades ago. I had a good hand and eyes. During one of my college classes, where the general opinion of realistic rendering was low, a friend asked me why I went to so much trouble with "verisimiltude." I replied that i had been drawing since 5 yrs old, and that I hardly had to think about it. I suspect that drawing, like many other things, is best picked up young. Its not that "old dogs" can't learn new tricks. Its just that without a lot more practice, the mental grooves are not established. It helps to do the same thing over and over everyday till it becomes 2nd nature.

As far as books go, they are often useful. Most of the practices have been well known for centuries, and by looking over the references, one doesn't have to re-invent the wheel. Just a few days ago, I found that I needed to go back to some proportion references that I had forgotten.

In classic academic training, it takes a long time to get to the point of working in 3-D. Usually one starts working soft items, like clay, or plaster. And one works on a fairly large scale. Starting w. wood carving on a small scale is really jumping into the deep end.

So no one should feel bad about struggling with it. My problem at this time is that it feels tedious regaining skills I once had, and developing them more. When I want to just have some fun, I strip away bark, and sand the wood just to enjoy looking at the grain


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

No one is saying you need to draw ,but for me it helps in understanding the 3dimensinal shape of things . and further develop carving skills .Still a relative newby for carving ,but each time i carve somehting i see mistakes and think should i do this different .

Also it encourages me to carve different things and hopefully i can get the relaxation and satisfaction i get from carving hiking pole toppers

Its not very oftern i carve the same thing twice , but some times theres a need to do it .

I do think shawns cipa books has helped with this and has rekindeled my interst in the gothic apporoach .and has given me the confidence in trying the alice through the looking glass illustrations and turning them into a innstallation piece .There are modification i feel the drawings need yet and with what i want from them i cant be true to his origanal work but hopefully carch the essence of it

also some carving books has helped to use the corrct tools for the job ,i dont think there is a right and wrong way but getting good photos helps in the carving processs

So keep carving everyone you never know where its going to take you


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## JJireh (Feb 7, 2013)

cobalt said:


> No one is saying you need to draw ,


I'm saying you need to draw  Really, piggy backing on you, CV3 and gdenby. I would/do encourage anyone who wants to carve to get a plain ol notebook and #2 pencil and start drawing. I don't care what level you are or if anyone but you can understand what it is you put on paper. It is vital to train your brain and hand to work in concert. The same lines you draw will be the same lines you carve. Understanding depth and proportion are secondary. You can sketch any time, with minimal wood shavings  Mess ups on paper save firewood. my 2c


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

cut and paste is a way to get the outlines and does help as a guide to remove wood quickly and by sawing it will save time and effort which just leaves parts that needs shaping with the tool of choice which is the best part

and as you start carving just use a 2b pencil to shade any area that needs removing it will help visualize it


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## yaxley (Sep 4, 2014)

I use graphite transfer paper for images that are beyond my drawing abilities.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Its anothway to serve your purpose and probably a good one.but drawing enables you to take parts of differnt images and rearange then in the order you want its like have the ability to take a elphants head and put it onto a whales body with a snakes skin texture ,which is a big advantage and keeps challenging you to devlop the carving skill and prevents your work being a replica of others

which ever way suits you is the best way as long as you feel your getting somethimg out of it , but you would never part me from using a hb, b, 2b and 4b grade pencils for anything there as good as any chisel for me


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

At the moment i dont seem to have time for stickmaking or anything , I have some stickmaking work to do but other things keep my out of the workshop and have only managed to make on template for alice in wonderland .

I thought retiremant would be relaxing and could have a coffe whenever i liked go for a casual stroll potty around the workshop etc ,but no its not like that its dashing here and ther to do things and getting more sucked in on meetings and organising events . and having to take part and support other things .I have stopped using the mobile phone and unplugged the doorbell and the landline but it dosnt make any difference


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## MJC4 (Mar 6, 2014)

Amen Cobalt, I am a firm believer in what my signature line says. "Being retired is turning out to hard work!"

Mark


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

The real problem for me is I broke my NO button. I think I have it fixed but still have a following sea off stuff I agreed to. I will be cleaning that up tell the new year.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

I have started some of the carvings for alice through the looking glass using tulip wood .

Its not a nice wood to carver the grain is long and fiberous ,trying hand tools and a power rasp just getting a feel for the wood ,power tools seem to work better ,But like to get the basic shape with the chisels.

heres the state of play.trying to get it into the round ,before i cut the legs out they seem a bit delicate .Have enlarged the drawings by 25% the overal height is 14 inches and 4 inches wide

it will be part of off the wall theme i`m trying out already have more ideas for another project but will concerntrate on this first.Dont know if i will carry on using this wood may go back to the lime .

Hve some apple and flowering cherry may use that but not sure if its seasoned


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

I think i found " i not here button" lock the doors unplug phone



CV3 said:


> The real problem for me is I broke my NO button. I think I have it fixed but still have a following sea off stuff I agreed to. I will be cleaning that up tell the new year.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Escaped into the worshop today ,managed to get some carving done on the tulip wood.Not my wood of choice ,new to me.

Think its better suited for machine work ideal turning wood ?.

Having started i will try to finish it , but dont think i will carry on using the wood .It difficult to carve fiborous and unforgiving

but this is the stage i am at

This is the original pic i based it on from alice through the looking glass its a updated coloured illustration by Harry Theaker and Diz Wallis


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

It looks like it is taking the tools well. Your cuts are clean and no notable chipping or braking away around your rough out of the ears and mane. I think the end product may end up being worth the added effort.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

CV3 said:


> It looks like it is taking the tools well. Your cuts are clean and no notable chipping or braking away around your rough out of the ears and mane. I think the end product may end up being worth the added effort.


well i hope so ,have several to carve ,and with what i want do it looks like i have at lest 6 mths work planned .

Allowing for 1piece a week to finsh a minimum of 14 weeks work

Thats without the projects i need to finish. The of the wall project is going to take some time with alice and the next project already planned ?

Have to harvest all next years shanks hopefully by december , and make room for them .planning on getting a couple of hundred .Select the best ones and sell the rest off .

Its posable to cut 50 a day using lopers Theres plenty to go at.

My target is to carve a ships figure head by the end of next year. Dont ask me why? keep asking myself that


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

Had to laugh reading your post cobalt! Thing aren't so differant over over here. I think all our want to do's are bigger than our can get done's. Every time I finish one project, I think of two more!


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

We are supposed to be retierd , its seems like a second burst of life .The carving only started when i retierd and one thing leads to others .

social thing are busyer than ever ,everyone thinks you have little to do , so get roped into other things by other people who think there doing me a favour

And your right about finishing one project and starting two more ,

I always think of other projects whilst drawing the one i am supposed to start , thats the thing with drawing it always happens ideas pop into the head


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

grabbed a couple of hours in the shed time seems to get shorter.

the unicorn is getting there slowly














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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

Both are looking outstanding cobalt. Your skill of drawing detail plans pays off in you carvings.


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## MJC4 (Mar 6, 2014)

I agree off to an excellent start. 1st of, did you say14? Your retired, Cobalt, you got all the time in the world to get them done. LOL 

I don't know seems being retired is tiring. I have tons of projects to do around the house and never enough time to get them all done.

Then my wife thinks it would be a great idea if "we" gave our nieces and nephews, the girls in her club, sisters and brothers, g-kids etc. "a cute little Christmas carving" All told that's about 24 figurines I figure. If and I say if I can whittle up and paint a Santa, bear or snowman in a day that still equate to about a months worth of work. I didn't work seven days a week when I was getting paid for it! :blink:

I digress it really is a great start, Cobalt. :thumbsu:

Mark


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Its not usually your own plans that stop you doing your own projects , its over peoples ideas . when you find the NO button CV3 tell me where it is ?


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

The No Button is just behind the ( Yes Dear Switch) ;-)


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

I think the yes dear switch is in the way


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

The 4 words to a happy marriage , YES DEAR and YOUR RIGHT !


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Another few hours in the shop ,shaping the legs and shoes , Awkward to get at but the carving knife is a big help its slow .Soon be adding final detail .The eyes need tweeking anf the mane and tail need texturing but getting there.

getting to grips with the wood seem to be getting a better understand of how to work it?


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

getting towards the finish just need the ruff sorting out and cleaning up before i decide how to finish it .

been playing around with perminant inks as would like to keep the colour transparent

Will try to mix the ink with some varnish to look at the finish. can anyone tell me of a transparent paint? other than water colour

these are a few pieces managed to get textured

state of play


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

Looks great cobalt. The wood is holding your detail very well. For your paint you might try air bush paints. They are Thiner than your regular acrilic paint. Test it on some scrap. I have all so thined oil paints to creat stained look. It takes more time and testing. And keep a recored of your mix so you can make more if needed. Also with the use if multiple colors as stain bleed over is a issue, colors will travel down grain lines in to the other colors. Or the area to be painted another color. Eather a deep stop cut with a detail knife or use of my wood burner at the points where you transition from one color to the other can help with that. I mostly use my wood burner. It seems to seal along the line of separation. Most of the time! But test on the scrap form that cut out if you can.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Yes the wood holds detail well.

I havnt a airbrush to tryout. but have messed about with a thin coat of varnish to stop the bleed on the wood used a 25% varnish mixed with water. Then used artist inks ,i think the also will need diluting but seems to work.

I did try some paint mixed with varnish but the water based varnish i used seem to seperate out the colour pigment made it go slightly powdery . istill have some test peices drying so will look tommorow at them before i decide.

I did think about the woodburner but decided against it as i want crisp clean colours..Some of the decoration is quite small detail so i ruled out using a deep cut with the knife.

Spent to much time trying things out so far but the ink looks the best way of going.Its always useful to see other ways of tackling issues. so thanks.

cut the ruff out today and textured the unicrns tail nearly finished now.Not sure if i should textuer the head of the unicorn?

Is it a bank holiday there today heard it on the radio,it explians why things are slow here.


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## gdenby (Apr 27, 2013)

cobalt said:


> Spent to much time trying things out so far but the ink looks the best way of going.Its always useful to see other ways of tackling issues. so thanks.
> 
> cut the ruff out today and textured the unicrns tail nearly finished now.Not sure if i should textuer the head of the unicorn?
> 
> ...


Its all looking good. If you are going to color it, won't the color shapes add a visual texture to the head? For myself, when in doubt I do nothing, at least for several days till I can work out the implications in the back of my head.

I used to do some detailed geometric paintings on panel. I found that after I had applied the gesso undercoat, I could use the lightest trace w. a craft razor (called an X-acto here) to create a very fine gutter that would keep the paints from bleeding into adjacent areas.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

your right gdenby. i do the same when not sure.

i have sealed some test pieces with a weak solution of varnish want it to dry well before i start the next step.

i will try mixing artists inks with a water based varnish only a thin solution to test that .i will also try mixing food dyes with the varnish and do the same . they may need several coats and dont want to lose the grain of the wood. parts of it i may use some enamael it whic i would paint on 1st ,then use the coloured varvish, depends how they turn out..I think i may leave the head a natural cclour , just paint the ruff collar white.All up in the ait till the test pieces dry.

suggestions from other site was to use shellac and mix in oil paints .I didnt know you could get bleached shellac it gives a light tone than the ordinary type which gives more of a golden tint.

I did think the colour may be affected by the natural colour of the wood .Tulip wood seems a very lght pinky yellow so hoe it will affect the finish only the test pieces will tell.


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

Taking your time and testing your finishes is the right prosess cobalt. Look forward to seeing your choices.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Have tried inks and food colours so far ,the foo colour was a disaster came out poorly some seperation and gave a poor murky colour.

The ink looks very good used it on its own and mixed some with water based varnish . a have given some wood 2 coats of the of the varnish mix and it looks promising . the ink applied directly onto the wood after giving it a sealer wooks very well so it looks like thats the way to go its transparent. However appliying a diffent colour on top ceratainly spoils the crispness of the following colour.So will treat the wood 1st with a sealent and paint with ink leaving any aera clear that needs diffent coloursI have only used 1 colour so far but artist inks do have shellac in them suppose thats why there waterproof.

Just a final test tommorow to give it all a coat of clear varnish

I think this is the most difficult piece to do so i hope things go a bit quicker but itheres no time limit

suppose treat it like a water colour painting

Hope to start the second piece tommorow either the dodo ,queen of harts or the mad hatter


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## gdenby (Apr 27, 2013)

The food coloring would probably have faded quickly. Some vegetable dyes only last a few months under ordinary light.

I like shellac because it will accept tints. But I've decided that it is to fragile for sticks that are used for more than show.


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## MJC4 (Mar 6, 2014)

Cobalt, whatever you decide on the finish it's a very unique and another well made piece. Always look forward to your progress pics.

Mark


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Finished the test pieces well pleased with the inks, just the sort of finish i wanted.

was hoping to try white ink thought it would be good for the unicorns head as long as its transparent like the other inks ive tried .

Trouble is the local supply has run out had to order on line pity as i want to get it finished

next piece will either be the mad hatter or the queen of harts at lest no more colour testing to do apart from the white ink..

its been a good project to do hopefully the next pieces will go as well

I think you right gdenby about using shellac on sticks it chips easily worse than varnish i think and dont think you will beat a oil finish on sticks.

the food colouring was rubbish and your probable right aboutit not being very colour fast, i dont know how the the ink will stand up to light but it will have a few coats of varnish on it to finish it off ,but wont put them in direct light anyway.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

started the final stage of the unicrn today

Took CV3 & Marks advice and went to the haberdashery and got some dress makes pins ,didnt know that you can get glass ones,but ended up with some pearl ones for the unicorns coat,. had a look for some beads but they where to large for what i want and only had plastic ones

Drill ed 16 hole in the unicrn tunic cut the beads a little longer than the holes so when i glue them in it will need a tap with the hammer to drive the pin into the wood as well.The pins should sit on top of his uniform but the holes will allow them to sit firmly whe i add the glue as well

I Used blue ink dirrctly onto the treated wood it looks okay and painted round some edges with gold ink, gave the legs a light was of blue ink mixed with varnish think its a bit to light, some may give it a nother coat.

The gold ink seems to thicken the varnish but just painted a bit with it .Trouble is letting it dry between coats otherwise dirty finger marks all over.

made a start on the queen of spade and cut the blank out for the mad hatter

picture update


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

Well done. I would not have thought of using the pin as you have. I will remember that. This is a big project. Looking to the progress on the Queen and Mad Hatter also. Nice work cobalt!


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

The wood for the project isnt easy to deal with it takes power tools far more easily yet holds detail well.

Getting rid of unwanted materail useing the gouge is slow work musc better to use a saw where you can.

The ink has all reacted the same as the test piece so had to go over areas with pure ink to get a better even coat of colour, so each time this is done i need to leave for a few hours then apply a clear varnish on that area.then leave it again for a few hours .its to easy to get the ink on the hand using water colour brushs, so its a slow job,

updated pic


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

another coat applied this morning ,slow job

looking forward to doing a bit of stickmaking , a couple of wild fowl to do

still cant edit pic. onhere?

have to go shopping now yuk , no pleasure in that


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

unable to get into the workshop ,been roped intp other jobs for my daughter , she just moved house and i seem to be the fix it guy

so when i get home in the evening i just been doing drawings for the alice project. must have done 12 - 15 drawings of the dodo it s just been one of those that hasnt gone well?

Scaled up a couple of drawings and made the template today just used the smaller drawing as i found a bit of a ofcut that i could use for it.

I will make the piece in at lest two sections so i can get the head looking side ways rather then looking straight ahead.So will do what a lot of wildfowl carvers do make the head seperate then glus and dowel it in place

not much done never even had a chance to cut the blank out and was hoping to finish the unicorn

think this is is what i will do didnt base it on the charatuer in the book didnt think it was quite right for the project


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## MJC4 (Mar 6, 2014)

I really like the unicorn, well done Cobalt! I know you may have posted it on this thread somewhere but I didn't see it, I'm curious as to the dimensions on the unicorn carving, the height and width of the piece.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

The carving was was cut from a pieceof 4x4 tulip wood and is about 15 at about 4 x3 x 14.5 inches inches tall now.

Still a bit to do on it but need good daylight to work the old eyes arnt what they used to be. which is iritating and dont like working under electric lights , as it needs upgrading badly


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

No jobs to do today left the day for myself .The dodo was to hard to resist mesiing about with so cut it out , fixed it to the carvers vice and before you know it its nearly finished. just some small bits to do to it then carve the body and fix it.


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

Good work cobalt. Very clean detail. I am enjoying following your progress on this project.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Had to attend two funerals in two days , reminds me of how vunerable we are not nice. as much as its a upsetting experiance it was expected .Have attended to many of them .

So no chance of getting into the workshop which helps to take your mind of things as its easy to get lost in there

So you guys keep yourselfs well.


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

cobalt said:


> Had to attend two funerals in two days , reminds me of how vunerable we are not nice. as much as its a upsetting experiance it was expected .Have attended to many of them .
> 
> So no chance of getting into the workshop which helps to take your mind of things as its easy to get lost in there
> 
> So you guys keep yourselfs well.


Sadly the grayer we get the more of them we go to.


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## MJC4 (Mar 6, 2014)

I have not been well, so I missed the wake of fellow retired insulator Friday. I didn't know him well but I worked with his son a lot the last few years of my career. I hate missing the wake of a brother member. Supporting the families is part of what we as trade union members are all about. Have attended too many of these the last several years myself, a direct result of getting older.

My condolences to you, Cobalt.

Mark


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

many thanks ,but it didnt come as a shock.been to to many close family members.have gone

On a upbeat note got into my haven today for awhile anyway and managed to attach the neck to the dodo. found a of cut of wood for the job had intended to make at least half the ddos body but decided to save the wood for the walrus and the carpenter.

Its been a real pleasure carving the dodo but my daughter thinks its wierd I told her its better than having some tyrical water colour painting on the wall which is pretty boring but the grandchildren love it.

But i like 3dimensional work .

just a picture of the smaller neck attached to it, still cant edit these pictures? how do you remove some of them


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

gettind towards the finisj line with the dodo textured it today so about ready for the ink/varnish mix.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

didnt post the pics here they are









another mess up with the pictures using the edit .it dosnt let you remove them?


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

The Dodo is looking great. I like his expression.


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## MJC4 (Mar 6, 2014)

Another good looking piece Cobalt. The Dodo would make an interesting stick topper.


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## gdenby (Apr 27, 2013)

cobalt said:


> Had to attend two funerals in two days , reminds me of how vunerable we are not nice. as much as its a upsetting experiance it was expected .Have attended to many of them .
> 
> So no chance of getting into the workshop which helps to take your mind of things as its easy to get lost in there
> 
> So you guys keep yourselfs well.


Trying to keep well, but it is an up hill climb.

Haven't been so productive recently because I was tending to my 95 yr. old uncles funeral, and now maintaining his estate. Lots of tedious and confusing paperwork.

Even cussing when I knick myself while carving is more pleasant.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Sorry about your uncle never a pleasent duty

there can be a lot of work in administrating dont evny you that.. iT usually other tasks that detract you from what you want to do ,

but 1st priority is keep yourself well.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

I changed the eyes of the dodo from bird like to human eyes thought it may givethe creature a bit more character, dont know if its worked .

I also think it would make a great stick thats why i use one for my avatar.. It just needs staining/varnishing yet will finish it of with the unicorn.

the walrus and the carpenter are next on the list ,but have to finish of the queen of spades and the mad hatter as well..i will end up doing some of thses for hiking oles think there fun to do.

I have some rams horn which i will make the walrus tusks from so looking forward to that challenge .


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

been nearly 7 weeks on this project ,havent got any finished yet,was planning on doing 1 a week .fat chance only two about finished. been voluntered for jobs . other peoples jobs.

havnt done any stickmaking and have two to do.. Think i need a gone away sign.already been given some jobs tommorow .NEED A GET OUT CLAUSE?

Have two meetings to attend 2 functions to go to, sort out car insurance they always want to hike the price up, . get costings for another project and arrange meetings with 2 organisations . worst of all run out of glenffidiich and getting annoyed with people.

I am retired and need to do my own thing in peace . The workshop needs de cluttering and the bench want clearing to start my projects

How on earth do you guys sneak out of jobs ,worst of all i dont volunter i am voluntered .have to see my grandaughter which is a pleasure for a change its her birthday so another day gone ?


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

It would seem that things are not so different across the sea, I too belong to a couple of groups. Having established a record of getting things done they always have something they what me to do. As dose my wonderful wife. Have you ever noticed some some groups will surrender any and all responsibility to any responsible person they can? Then shortly after they have assured you of all the support and help you need they disappear. But will always show up just long enough to offer their opinion. They did not always like the faxed that if they made me responsible I assumed the authority needed to get it done. It took a few projects but I learned to say no unless it was something I wanted to do. ,

OH, the saying no thing works with the groups. Not so much with the wonderful wife!!!!


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## MJC4 (Mar 6, 2014)

Remember the "Just say no" slogan of the 80's? Try that one out and see how far it flies. Might work with other people, definitely doesn't work with the bride.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Managed to get into the workshop today , no carving done but managed to paint the dodo,just needs a couple of coats of varnish now,


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

grabbed a hour in the workshop today and finished of the unicorn giving it its final coat of varnish and inserting its buttons on his tunic and gave the dodo its coat of varnish


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

Those are wonderful I think you have a Family heirloom in the making.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks for the comment

I am hoping to do something on this line in a local wood either using green wood or adding a carved piece in a appropiate place .There is a designated walk area which i think would work well and working on it during the winter mnths with no one around and sap falling would be ideal.

I was given perrmision to do a project in the sherwood forest doing a project on the walk of life .starting with a single youth then meeting a girl , a marriage scene and a birth scene then a death scene then a old lady , the pieces wouldnt be fully carved mainly just faces carved into a tree that are standing in the appropiate place , problem was management changed and they withdrew funding,

The other project was dedicated to the fallen troops and the effect it had on the families .it was just a series of faces from a young child to a old men and woman carved into a fallen tree to to represent the effects of men who died in conflict and how it effects the branches of the familys and what could have been..

.this may go ahead if i get permmision to do it.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Not able to put the time in that this project needs short daylight now but managed to do a bit on the queen of spades


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## MJC4 (Mar 6, 2014)

Even as a rough out I can see you have put her facial features into the "off with her head" expression. It will be a great piece!

I know what you mean about the short daylight. I was painting a couple Santa's I had carved under halogen lights last night and in the daylight I saw several areas that needed touching up. You would think with a 200 watt halogen work light the lighting would be good but even that was not good enough for detail painting.


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

Good luck on your Sherwood project. It sounds Like it wood be a lot of fun. You Queen is coming along very well. I like the wood It is working well for you.


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## CV3 (Jan 30, 2014)

MJC4 said:


> Even as a rough out I can see you have put her facial features into the "off with her head" expression. It will be a great piece!
> 
> I know what you mean about the short daylight. I was painting a couple Santa's I had carved under halogen lights last night and in the daylight I saw several areas that needed touching up. You would think with a 200 watt halogen work light the lighting would be good but even that was not good enough for detail painting.


I have found artificial lighting can be too bright some times. It will give me glare that will mask some flaws. Turning away and finding that place were there is good light but good shadows lets you find flaws easier. These new florescent lighting suck. I have not tried the new led bulbs yet. I have been told they work more like the incandescent bulbs did.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

I use a day light bulb in the bendy lamp in the workshop as well as the usual lighting .the day light bulb is pretty good a lot of artist use them. did check out the piece you did on lighting as i do need to do something with the light there just not good enough. You right about casting deep shaows but i find its to much shadow and they effect the tones of colours badly and prefer not to paint in artificial light

when you try the LED light let us know how you get on with them as i have to do something to improve the light.


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## gdenby (Apr 27, 2013)

As I've mentioned, I worked in an art museum for many years. While I was in charge of exhibit installation, my special task was lighting. I spent years testing illumination w. light meters, and towards the end, w. high end digital cameras. Here are some observations on color rendition by various sources of illumination.

Older incandescent lamps start out w. a broad range of wavelengths, but tend to be fairly "warm," strong in the red end of the spectrum. The standard for the color balance was called color temperature. The notion was that an element such as tungsten, if excited enough, would emit the entire spectrum. Lamps w. higher color temperatures would emit some blue light.

W. time, they both dim, and become redder in cast. In many circumstances, this is not a problem for humans, as we are capable of adjusting to dim light w. a red cast. Light of a similar lumen strength that is towards the blue will cause many colors to appear black. I suppose humans are adapted to sitting in dim areas lit by firelight.

Florescent lights initially only emitted a few wavelengths, usually quite green. As they were developed, different gas mixtures and internal coatings which fluoresced at different wave lengths than the gas were added. The result was that more frequencies were present in the light. For better color rendition, a mix of different florescent lamps are needed which will hopefully include more of the spectrum.

The LEDs now becoming more commonplace were initially mono-chromatic. LEDs emit just one wavelength, depending on their chemical constitution. Early arrays used for illumination would have a mix of many dim elements of different wavelengths to emulate various color temperatures. The big discovery was that a very blue light from an LED could pass thru a subsidiary yellow phosphorescent material, producing a balance that approximated white light. Most of the early ones were still quite blue. And there was a noticeable flicker like florescent lamps.

They also only emitted light in one direction. Early on, they were most appropriate for flash light beams, not area illumination.

A few years before I left the museum work, LEDs could be had w. a much better color balance. In fact, they head a better color rendition than the halogen lamps we mostly used for permanent displays. They worked well as small spotlights. As floodlights they were less efficient. The level of illumination for an LED flood of a certain wattage was much less than that of a spot. Much more than old incandescent lamps.

Halogen lights, once called high intensity lamps, can be quite good as far as color rendition goes. But they depend on reflective surfaces for direction. The quality of the surface may cause problems. Typically, w. use the surfaces shift towards the red end, but sometimes will go green.

A lot of color problems can be solved by reflecting the light source off a white surface. Paint something w. titanium white, and bounce the light off that. A broad and/or curved surface will reduce glare also.

As far as perception goes, surface detail is most enhanced by a strong raking light. The down side is that shadowed areas become invisible. In an artificial environment, one needs a fill light. The light from a fill comes in from an angle perpendicular to opposite the main light. It is of lesser brightness, but sufficient to brighten the shadowed areas from the main light. This helps because the eye only has so much brightness discrimination, and it tends to be rather weak at the lower end.

Hope this helps some.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

wow thanks for that

had to read it a few times to absorb it it all makes sense,

I was told that the new LED are very good now ?and they be useful to me ? as ithe main lighting would need to be flood lighting i think with additional lighting to focus on areas? hows that sound to you.?

I do like the daylight bulb i use now but there is still the need for flood lighting,

Trouble is when i buy paints i still take it outside to look at the colour in natural light much to the disgust of the shop assistant. and now eveything or most things are on line its not pratical unless you have used that brand before even then there is some variation

But its for carving i need lights most for


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## MJC4 (Mar 6, 2014)

The halogen work light I have been using is indeed too bright. Great for painting the wall or ceiling but sucks for small craft type painting and carving.

I have now gotten out a couple of the old time clamp type hooded lamps. One with a 150 watts overhead and a 100 watt from the side. Plain old incandescent bulbs. Sometimes the old stuff is still the best. Only problem I have is the incandescent bulbs with the aluminum hood reflector do generate quite a bit of heat. Though that's not too bad when it is 15* outside!

Mark


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Not been a good day dropped the queen of harts broke her arm of talk about off with her head so annoyed it nearly got cut off.

Managed to do a quick repair work then tried to get details in on her sleve and hand .

whilst the glue was drying tried to get some done on the mad hatter its a slow jod with tulip wood hot my favorite wood but you can get a good finish on it ,but dosnt take well to the chisels , managed to get the basic hat shape nearly there. There has been some cracks appear in the wood hope they dont get larger not sure why? but should be able to fill them in before i paint it?


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## MJC4 (Mar 6, 2014)

I have had cracks appear on wood I was carving. Perhaps as we carve we are exposing inner portions of the wood that is not as dry and it cracks as it dries.


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## gdenby (Apr 27, 2013)

MJC4 said:


> I have had cracks appear on wood I was carving. Perhaps as we carve we are exposing inner portions of the wood that is not as dry and it cracks as it dries.


Awhile ago I came across a mention by a netsuke carver that the boxwood she was using had cured for 6 years. That was for pieces no more than 2" thick.

My sculpture teacher had splitting problems w.pieces he had carved 20 years earlier. He would place them in plastic containers w. pieces of damp sponge. After 6 - 8 months, the wood expanded, and the cracks closed. My suspicion is that all wood that floats will eventually crack.


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## gdenby (Apr 27, 2013)

cobalt said:


> wow thanks for that
> 
> had to read it a few times to absorb it it all makes sense,
> 
> ...


LED lamps that have good color rendition were still quite expensive the last I looked into the matter. And they were dimmer than I would have wanted to use for carving. At present, I only use them for close in detail lighting.

I think that for the the next few years, having several daylight incandescent lamps would be a good choice. Standard lighting practice is to have one side of the object in a brighter light, and the other side lit by a secondary source that is somewhat dimmer.

When I was painting pictures, I never worked under less than 2 250 watt lights, and I preferred 1000 W. total. Still nothing like daylight.


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## cobalt (Nov 14, 2013)

Think you right about the lighting they are expensive and think i will use a couple more bulbs above the bench as well as the swivel one i already use.

I was suprised to see the cracks as the wood seemed sound and still does but i have had the wood indoors and with central heating i suppose caused it but as it will be hung indoors i will just fill them and paint them normally


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