# wood spliting



## KnightLite (Dec 30, 2012)

Great site !!!

Does anyone have suggestions for stoping wood from spliting in the drying or curing process?


----------



## grandpa ray (Dec 24, 2012)

hi knightlite are you talking about walking sticks or any certain kind of wood ???


----------



## KnightLite (Dec 30, 2012)

Yes, walking sticks, but in a general sense any wood. I like combining different woods to acheive effects. I have had success in drying "Indian tear blanket" after removing some or all of the bark, but on other occassions, in the same setting, it has split. Putting hot wax on the ends and any stem cuts seems to work at times but there is some varriable I haven't figured out yet that causes failures at times.

Also, it seems that any wood dryed in full size (not split) will get radial cracks to the center.


----------



## Sean (Dec 29, 2012)

Here are some tips I've found that will prevent cracking at least in most of the woods I have access too.

1. Cutting in the "off season", eg: when the sap has stopped running will help. This also is handy as you

can see the wood, as leaves are off trees.

2. Cut your sticks longer than you will need, as wood tends to "check/crack" on the ends.

3. Sealing the ends is good, as you suggested, using wax.

4. When you bring your sticks home, try putting them under cover, or in the garage, somewhere cooler

and where they will dry out slowly.

5. And my favorite suggestion is... don't be in too much of a hurry to strip the bark off your walking sticks.

The bark will act as aid and keep the stick from cracking as not only does it help in holding it together but

it also slows the drying time down for more even drying. One of the other reasons I like bark so much is

you can sand it off down the road when dry and you can play with the rustic colors and texture and make

a very nice looking stick.

Hope this helps.


----------



## NightKnight (Dec 23, 2012)

Yeah, wood checking is a common problem because wood dries something like 10x faster on the ends. I read somewhere that you should coat the ends in a 50% de-natured alcohol and 50% white shellac mix, and let it dry. Wax isnt good enough at stabilizing the wood. That coating supposedly doesn't damage the wood, and leaves it in a state that you can still carve it and work on it later.


----------



## grandpa ray (Dec 24, 2012)

i cut my walking sticks a few inches longer than i need and i debark them and put hose clamps on both ends and let the sticks dry .tighten clamps every 2-3 days to keep pressure on the ends of the stick. the clamps might leave marks but you can cut off an inch or two on each end. seems to work pretty good on willow.


----------



## KnightLite (Dec 30, 2012)

Sean said:


> Here are some tips I've found that will prevent cracking at least in most of the woods I have access too.
> 
> 1. Cutting in the "off season", eg: when the sap has stopped running will help. This also is handy as you
> 
> ...


Thanks. Good suggestions.

Experimenting with the bark is fun. I have left a strip or strips or designs of the whole bark on some of my sticks so I could remember and show others what it looked like or for color contrast.

However, on some woods, like the tear blanket, it discolors inner layers. Sasafras is good, after drying, for experimenting sanding progressively throuh the layers.

Generally , though, I think the controling of the drying time and moisture content is the most important. Cellular colapse is the enemy. do you have any suggestions for keeping the acrylic resins from staining the wood. (They supposedly fill the cells and prvent colapse.)


----------



## KnightLite (Dec 30, 2012)

AaronC said:


> Yeah, wood checking is a common problem because wood dries something like 10x faster on the ends. I read somewhere that you should coat the ends in a 50% de-natured alcohol and 50% white shellac mix, and let it dry. Wax isnt good enough at stabilizing the wood. That coating supposedly doesn't damage the wood, and leaves it in a state that you can still carve it and work on it later.


Thanks for that idea. I'll give it a try. I've been waiting to cut off the last inch or so on both ends and limbs that I want to remove. That seems to help, too.


----------



## Sean (Dec 29, 2012)

Not really sure what to suggest for the resin stain in your wood. I haven't had any issues yet with the wood and finish I've been using.

A woodworking cabinet site might have some good information?

Aaron,

I'll keep that shellac and alcohol mix in mind for the seal. I've got one particular wood up here, goes by the name of "paper bark maple"

and it's a bugger for splitting, sometimes the whole length of the stick! Problem is it takes a few weeks for it to start, well after I've put

it on the rack only to discover months down the road it'll be firewood.


----------



## Shawn C (Dec 28, 2012)

The product Pentacryl (thru Woodcraft) is very good to use in regards to cellular replacement. Also, once dry, it allows for the use of finishing products afterwards. It was originally used for bowl turners using green wood to prevent checking and splitting.


----------



## Sean (Dec 29, 2012)

Thanks for that Shawn.


----------



## NightKnight (Dec 23, 2012)

This stuff Shawn?
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2001793/2988/pentacryl-wood-stabilizer-quart.aspx


----------



## KnightLite (Dec 30, 2012)

AaronC said:


> Yeah, wood checking is a common problem because wood dries something like 10x faster on the ends. I read somewhere that you should coat the ends in a 50% de-natured alcohol and 50% white shellac mix, and let it dry. Wax isnt good enough at stabilizing the wood. That coating supposedly doesn't damage the wood, and leaves it in a state that you can still carve it and work on it later.


Thanks for the tip! I have to wonder though, if you seal the moisture in too tightly or encapsulate it with the moisture in it, isn't that moisture going to rot the wood or damage it in some way? sooner or later it either escapes or goes sour, right?


----------



## KnightLite (Dec 30, 2012)

grandpa ray said:


> i cut my walking sticks a few inches longer than i need and i debark them and put hose clamps on both ends and let the sticks dry .tighten clamps every 2-3 days to keep pressure on the ends of the stick. the clamps might leave marks but you can cut off an inch or two on each end. seems to work pretty good on willow.


Yeah, I like to do that, too. That also lets you adjust the length to fit someone else if you want to give it away or sell it.


----------



## KnightLite (Dec 30, 2012)

Shawn C said:


> The product Pentacryl (thru Woodcraft) is very good to use in regards to cellular replacement. Also, once dry, it allows for the use of finishing products afterwards. It was originally used for bowl turners using green wood to prevent checking and splitting.


That is the product I used but I might have done something wrong. My problem was that it wouldn't migrate very far up the stick through capilary action and when I left it in the acrylic a long time it must have gotten mold spores from the air because it started turning black. Either way there was darkening of the white wood. I was stuck with either beige or black stains and the acrylic only traveled 3 inches or so up each end of the stick. The cracking sometimes happens the length of the stick, like with Ratan vine.


----------



## KnightLite (Dec 30, 2012)

On this subject generally, have any of you figured out why the lumber mill puts sprinklers on the trees (like their curing them) then cuts them and kiln drys them without any obvious cracking?

If I did that to my sticks I'm sure it would ruin them!


----------



## boxwoodruler (Jan 11, 2013)

Keeping the logs wet prevents them from cracking before milling. Once milled, especially if quatersawn, cracking will be greatly minimized, with only scrinkage and warpage to deal with. Sticks are a very different challenge. I would suggest you gather as many as possible all winter, then dry them as slowly as possible in your most humid place like a basement, crawl space, etc., then after some time, simply throw away the bad ones. The softer your wood species is, the less chance for spliting. But more acurately, there is property of wood called the T&R ratio. This refers to tangential and radial wood scrinkage, with linear scrinkage considered 0%. Simply put, the higher the T&R is for a specific species, the more likely it will crack during drying. Here's a link for the more common species.

http://www.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/Turning/WoodShrinkage/ShrinkageT_R_TR_ratio.html


----------



## JJireh (Feb 7, 2013)

Posted this in another post

http://www.ronkent.com/techniques.phphttp://www.ronkent.com/techniques.php

about halfway down "Green wood"

Haven't tried it yet, but could be the magic trick


----------



## NightKnight (Dec 23, 2012)

That's an interesting read. Thanks for sharing. Let us know how it works!


----------



## CAS14 (Dec 28, 2012)

My first two very expensive attempts soaked in Pentacryl, in PVC pipe, for a week. The third is soaking now. One is a walking stick (I hope), and the other two will be shillelagh-style canes, I hope. The stick was, I thought honey locust due to the sharp thorns but now I am doubtful because the soaking shillelagh is definitely honey locust with smoother bark than the stick. The other shillelagh is oak.

Now, I have a very long wait for these to dry, perhaps six months.

In time I will share the results: did these shrink and crack, did bark come loose, etc.


----------



## Sean (Dec 29, 2012)

Sounds good CAS, let us know how you make out with them.


----------



## KnightLite (Dec 30, 2012)

The Ron Kent page was immensely interesting. It is difficult to understand how the soap dries on the interior. I'm going to try some experimenting with it though. Thanks for the link!


----------



## CAS14 (Dec 28, 2012)

Some progress on one of my green oak sticks, originally 2 inches diameter. After removing most of the bark, excepting the uppermost 6-8 inches, I soaked this in Pentacryl for a week. Subsequently, at random intervals, I have brushed more on the small ampunt of bark that remains.

After some weeks passed, I have begun to whittle on this for perhaps 15-30 minutes, one or two evenings per week, contingent on the weather and time available. As the diameter is reduced, the wood lightens, presumably because Pentacryl saturated wood is removed.

Of interest: following a whittling session, if the stick sits idle for some days, areas darken a bit. I believe that Pentacryl that has penetrated to considerable depth, is wicking back out. I don't understand the process as it should be due wither to concentration gradient or to capillary action. Neither process seems likely to be the cause, intuitively, bit I don't know of another reason why this phenomenon would occur.


----------



## Paul2281 (Apr 10, 2013)

Wow,very good post here...The Stick I bought from Ireland that I had to strip off the coatings they had put on it,I found the marks of previous hose clams being installed on the root ball handle to prevent splitting of it....I`m trying to use wood glue on the ends and open limb wounds on my sticks to help checking/splitting....And I cut all mine way way longer than needed....Got to check into this Penacryl stuff,new to me....

Thanks for the info....


----------



## Rad (Feb 19, 2013)

Paul2281 said:


> Wow,very good post here...The Stick I bought from Ireland that I had to strip off the coatings they had put on it,I found the marks of previous hose clams being installed on the root ball handle to prevent splitting of it....I`m trying to use wood glue on the ends and open limb wounds on my sticks to help checking/splitting....And I cut all mine way way longer than needed....Got to check into this Penacryl stuff,new to me....
> Thanks for the info....


Paul2281: the Pentacryl does seem to help, but it is costly!


----------



## Paul2281 (Apr 10, 2013)

Rad said:


> Paul2281 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow,very good post here...The Stick I bought from Ireland that I had to strip off the coatings they had put on it,I found the marks of previous hose clams being installed on the root ball handle to prevent splitting of it....I`m trying to use wood glue on the ends and open limb wounds on my sticks to help checking/splitting....And I cut all mine way way longer than needed....Got to check into this Penacryl stuff,new to me....
> ...


What is this stuff a liquid,paste,ect.ect...


----------



## Rad (Feb 19, 2013)

Paul2281 said:


> Rad said:
> 
> 
> > Paul2281 said:
> ...


It is a liquid, amber in color, but cost about $60 a gallon -- and if your going to dip and soak your sticks, you need enough to fill your dipping tube or whatever container you devise.


----------



## Paul2281 (Apr 10, 2013)

Rad said:


> Paul2281 said:
> 
> 
> > Rad said:
> ...


Gotcha brother....

Thank you...


----------



## gdenby (Apr 27, 2013)

This thread is why I'm thrilled to find the forum. Walking stick stock from fallen wood, green from recently downed, unseasoned, but cut during the winter, etc, is something quite unlike the well seasoned woods I've previous worked. Any wood may check, but a piece just an inch or so thick can be a disaster.


----------



## CAS14 (Dec 28, 2012)

Controlled experiment #1 (for me). I wouldn't reach firm conclusions without 25+ controlled experiments. For now, this is all I have to go with.

About 2 1/2 weeks ago, I collected a green river birch that was cut down the street, with permission of the owner who was having the tree removed.

I trimmed some from the end that evening. The remainder was soaked in Pentacryl for nearly a week. The experiment is poorly controlled in that the cut end is short and the remainder is long, although the small end of the stick is not checked.

The Pentacryl-soaked stick is not checked (so far) on either end, whereas the trimmed end is checked.


----------



## Paul2281 (Apr 10, 2013)

So is Pentacryl the best stuff or any coating is better than nothing???


----------



## CAS14 (Dec 28, 2012)

Paul2281 said:


> So is Pentacryl the best stuff or any coating is better than nothing???


Pentacryl is probably the most expensive stuff. I am too new at this to know whether it is better than alternatives.


----------



## Paul2281 (Apr 10, 2013)

CAS said:


> Paul2281 said:
> 
> 
> > So is Pentacryl the best stuff or any coating is better than nothing???
> ...


Aaaah,not a problem...I`ve been just smearing some wood glue or super glue over any open wounds on a fresh stick with great results....Ofcours this won`t helf the sides or the stick from checking...


----------



## CAS14 (Dec 28, 2012)

CAS said:


> My first two very expensive attempts soaked in Pentacryl, in PVC pipe, for a week. The third is soaking now. One is a walking stick (I hope), and the other two will be shillelagh-style canes, I hope. The stick was, I thought honey locust due to the sharp thorns but now I am doubtful because the soaking shillelagh is definitely honey locust with smoother bark than the stick. The other shillelagh is oak.
> Now, I have a very long wait for these to dry, perhaps six months.
> In time I will share the results: did these shrink and crack, did bark come loose, etc.


About four months later - still no checking and the thin bark remains on the honey locust.


----------



## gdenby (Apr 27, 2013)

CAS said:


> CAS said:
> 
> 
> > My first two very expensive attempts soaked in Pentacryl, in PVC pipe, for a week. The third is soaking now. One is a walking stick (I hope), and the other two will be shillelagh-style canes, I hope. The stick was, I thought honey locust due to the sharp thorns but now I am doubtful because the soaking shillelagh is definitely honey locust with smoother bark than the stick. The other shillelagh is oak.
> ...


Side note. I'd be inclined to think that the piece w. thorns is most likely to be honey locust. Many big thorns and a fairly rough, shaggy bark are typical for honey locust. There are a lot of "domesticated" golden honey locusts. They do not have thorns, and the bark is somewhat less shaggy. The leaves are a bright yellow green, particularly now in the spring. Other than honey locust, the only other wood I know of in around me is hawthorn. But the thorns are smaller, and not in clumps that I've noticed. Black locust thorns are rather small. Osage has thorns, but the wood is so orange that I don't suppose there would be any doubt about that.

Good to hear there's no checking yet. I have a lot of stock I'd like to start working on, but have had enough loss to checking that I am inclined to let what i have sit for a couple more years.


----------



## Fordj (Jan 8, 2014)

I just bought a 5' piece of 4" PVC. and end cap to use as a soaking tube for my sticks.

Per JJirehs post #18, and a visit to Ron Kents site, I have about 3 gallons of detergent and three sticks to submerge. I just have to figure out how to control the tube. Once the end cap is put on, it wants to fall over( round bottom cap). I either have to make a stand for it, or use my rope skills and frapp on a loop for a hook to keep it upright. Then find a place to mount a suitible hook.

So, tube made, but not soaking quiite yet.


----------



## CAS14 (Dec 28, 2012)

Fordj said:


> I just bought a 5' piece of 4" PVC. and end cap to use as a soaking tube for my sticks.
> Per JJirehs post #18, and a visit to Ron Kents site, I have about 3 gallons of detergent and three sticks to submerge. I just have to figure out how to control the tube. Once the end cap is put on, it wants to fall over( round bottom cap). I either have to make a stand for it, or use my rope skills and frapp on a loop for a hook to keep it upright. Then find a place to mount a suitible hook.
> So, tube made, but not soaking quiite yet.


I used a 15-gallon (?) bucket and some cord as well. That's a PVC can that once contained chlorine for a pool.


----------



## Fordj (Jan 8, 2014)

CAS,

That's a good idea. A 5 gallon bucket with about 2 gallons of water in would stabilize this soak tube, if I just leaned it in a corner. I bought a 4" clean out, and a 4" plug, so I could seal it to guard against spills and vapour loss, but didn't realize I also needed a 4" coupling to join the pipe to the clean out fitting.

Menards just opened is newest, biggest store here in Dickinson, ND, where I bought this stuff. I'll be back there this Saturday to either exchange the clean out for one that accepts the pipe size, or buy a coupling to use the one I already have. I'll also buy some cordage to frapp my tube to hang/stabilize it.


----------



## Rad (Feb 19, 2013)

I just stuck an eye bolt in a stud and bungy corded my tube upright.


----------

